Scrum Assessment Discussion > Is ScrumMaster a management position?
I think the question is worded correctly. The question is if the Scrum Guide expresses that the ScrumMaster manages "the process".
I believe that is where the improvement has to be made.
In your ScrumMaster-Training I am sure your trainer would have mentioned that.
The other 'hidden' aspect of it is that the explanation I gave 'the ScrumMaster manages the process' might sound a bit confusing since Scrum is a framework according to the Scrum Guide and not a process.
So my version is: The ScrumMaster manages that the Scrum Team operates inside of the Scrum framework and advises how the framework can be utilized most efficiently.
(Since the ScrumMaster however does not command to follow Scrum but ultimately has to resort to advising in his or her role, the "management" aspect is a bit blurry there also :) )
Andreas Erben
I agree with Andy, in the general context of the test is commonly cited the administration "management" referring to the organization´s management.
Although the correct answer is properly justified, I believe that the orientation of the question should be a little more explicit, or at least imply that it refers to the process.
Regards
Carlos Jerez
I was also thrown off at the first attempt mainly due to the 'position' part of 'management position'. As Scrum does state that the ScrumMaster manages the process. But a ScrumMaster does not need to be in a 'management position'. Many ScrumMaster I know are not in the management layer(s) of the organization.
Cheers,
Rudi Larno
Hopefully, ScrumMasters will be the same as managers in the hierarchy of an organization as the duties of a manager change from command and control to leading and supporting.
Ken
Ken Schwaber
I also misinterpreted the true meaning in this question and think this stems from the fact that in the early Scrum days people had trouble "translating" the old management positions to the new roles (I'm not arguing you have to, just suggesting people tried to). Therefore, I thought, this was a "check" question to prope if the student understood that Scrum masters are not so much an organizational position as a _mindshift_ from command and control to lead/support management. In general, I think, the questions should be checked for "trick" questions that does nothing to further the true intensions of Scrum, but more put people of in a "ok, you have to phrase things like that" sort of way ? Please pardon me if I'm to direct.
Morten Hoffmann
It is better to change the qusetion as "Is Scrum Master a Process Management Position?" to make the things clear.
Syed Shabid Ali
I "fell" for this. Yet the explanation doesn't make sense to me. "Management" just smells too much of managing something, ie. controlling something in a control way of things. A SM can't do that. The team and the PO are fundamentally responsible for the way they work.
I see SM as a leadership position. SM can lead the process, in a direction of greater effectiveness (in terms of value delivered per effort). And in doing so, he/she is leading the PO and the team to inspect and adapt their own work.
Petri Heiramo
This is a major difference between the SA training and Scrum.org's philosophy, and makes one wonder if the SA training truly represents an evolved form of SCRUM. In Sw/Dev terms, the question is whether SA is a fork of Scrum. I state this because having taken the CSM (joke of an ) exam, they ask nearly the same question: "Is a Scrum Master a Manager". Their answer is absolutely not. The reason for this was that a ScrumMaster can better communicate with thier team if they did not have any management responsibilities (hiring, firing, reviews, bonuses, etc) impeding the flow of unfiltered information. A developer wouldn't be worried about adverse HR actions for telling the truth.
I thought the difference was in the definition of "manager" with SA's definition meaning "management of people" and Scrum.org's definition being "management of process". However, after reading this section, there still is a problem, as Ken states: "Hopefully, ScrumMasters will be the same as managers in the hierarchy of an organization as the duties of a manager change from command and control to leading and supporting." I interpret this to be that Ken's definition of a manager is "management of people and/or processes", which clearly is different than the SA's philosophy.
So, the question I pose is, how different are these two different philosophies of Scrum, and which one is correct? Perhaps a different naming convention should be used to help differentiate between the two. I'm thinking of when CMM was re-written and had an "i" added to the end, calling it "integrated". Maybe at S/A they could say they have SCRUM(d) where (d) stands for deprecated? Or perhaps here we have SCRUMi where "i" stands for improved?
Michael Van
I make a critical distinction between a manager and a leader. Managers manage (things). Leaders lead (people). Sadly, people are too often managed (treated as things: "human resources" much?), when instead they should be led. I would say the Scrum Master is a leadership position, but not necessarily a management position. And besides, I have understood that the Scrum Master has no authority. Surely that rules out any semblance of management?
Empirically, isn't it so that for many teams, the Scrum Master is taken from the ranks of the developers? Personally, I think this approach is flawed, despite its obvious merits. In any case, in this scenario the Scrum Master almost certainly has no management authority, and instead appeals to the leadership essence of the Scrum Master role.
Stephen Jones
I tend to go with Stephen. A manager (usually a Project manager?) may take the role of Web Master but this is as a facilitator, not a manager. My understanding is that the 'rule" is that the Team is self managing in the context of scrum.
It does help if in other roles the Web Master has a managerial position as this greatly enhances his ability to remove "impediments" and achieve a more effective facilitation. In the job definition for a Scrum Master I don't believe the word manage should appear.
I agree that this question could be better phrased
Pete Williams
Pete,
The primary concern is the philosophy behind the question. Originally, Scrum taught that having a people-manager as the ScrumMaster inhibited truthfulness during Scrums, and the unspoken fact is this truthfulness is one of the bedrocks of making Scrum work. If the ScrumMaster is a people-manager and a process-manager, I can see how this could result in a lack of honesty from the Scrum Team. In any case, because a person my only take the PSM 1 test once all of the questions need to be crystal clear as does the underlying philosophy.
v/r,
Mike Van
Michael Van
I like the words of Mike Cohn over this (in his book "Succeeding with Agile"):
"... although the ScrumMaster has no authority over Scrum team members, the ScrumMaster does have authority over the process."
And then it depends on what one calls "a management position". I agree to apply this to the Scrum process, but outside Scrum it reflects more a desire than a reality. A lot of people would say that 'management' necessarily involves power over people...
We should keep promoting it though as a new vision on the 'management position' of the Scrum Master.
Regards
Gunther
Gunther Verheyen
Andy, I had the same headache when first approached the open assessment. Then after making the mistake I started thinking why this is a management position. Beside all of the words you already wrote here about managing process, leadership and so on there is one and from my point of view fundamental thing. You and I are not native speakers (and we share the language ;) ), our language defines "manager" as someone in power to give orders. English however treats this differently. Apart from command and control, there is also a place for "taking care of things" - like PA takes care of boss's calendar or Account Manager takes care of clients. In this case SM is definitely management position.
And this brings another topic, not to be discussed here. I should start the topic of language (meaning of words) and problems with assessment ;)
Jakub Slocki
Doesn't that role require managerial skills? Scrum Master could be dealing with impediments (variety of people-team-task issues, political savvy), coaching and communication.
I have a story to tell.
A friend of mine plays the role of tester and is vocal in her Scrum team. She points out impediments within the team. Sometimes she point out issues arising from her testing but her team members would not own up (they say: not me, I have done my part, not my problem). Some of her scrum team members didn't like her and constantly playing up mistakes by CC-ing deficiencies to Product Owner. Because she focus on getting the job done, open communication and insisting on team work she gets backing of her Scrum Master. Over time, she adjusted to Scrum thinking and was changing old attitude of her team. Her company had a rocky start using Scrum 2 years years ago. Last week in recent sprint (about 3-4th sprint out of 5 total before a release) her team outperform themselves to finish additional 2 unplanned user stories. That amazed the Product Owner. The Scrum Master played his role well (he is the senior SM who coached all other Scrum Masters to make sure there are no ScrumButs; my friend had the outmost respect for this person) he could not change the old mindset of the team faster than she could.
What could I as Scrum Master serve the team to make them achieve what she did for hers? Can Scrum Master come from this angle? If yes then maybe we can consider Scrum Master is a type of manager.
Fun Chiat
Half hour ago I found insight on whether Scrum is management at Mike's website
http://blog.mountaingoatsoftware.com/category/roles
Role of leaders in self managing team
...
"Suppose you are a ScrumMaster for a team. You’ve noticed that one team member, Jeff, is domineering and no one is willing to stand up to him. This team has self-organized—it has chosen to let Jeff make all key decisions. As the ScrumMaster for this team, though, you recognize that if Jeff continues to make all the decisions on his own it will impede the team’s efforts to improve. You consider having a private conversation with Jeff, but that is unlikely to change much. You contemplate stepping in and overruling some decisions he makes, but if you do it once the team will expect you to continue to do so, which won’t be good.
Then you begin thinking about subtle control and influence. Perhaps you decide to change the team’s dynamics by asking management to add someone new to the team, someone who is likely to stand up to Jeff. Or maybe you suggest to the enterprise architecture team that someone from its group attend key meetings—someone with the experience and background to challenge Jeff. No matter the specific problem, if you see that the team has self-organized in a way that impedes it, it is your responsibility to find a way to agitate, stir up, or otherwise disturb the status quo, so that the team adjusts, hopefully reorganizing in a more productive way.
There is more to leading a self-organizing team than buying pizza and getting out of the way. Leaders influence teams in subtle and indirect ways. It is impossible for a leader to accurately predict how a team will respond to a change, whether that change is a different team composition, new standards of performance, a vicarious selection system, or so on. Leaders do not have all the answers. What they do have is the ability to agitate teams (and the organization itself) toward becoming more agile."
.....
I noticed the ScrumMaster in this story believes in agile, manages a self-managing team and avoids command & control situation by managing the parameters. First through scrum process and second the team people. Such a ScrumMaster sounds more like a manager to me.
Fun Chiat
Why don't we make this absolutely clear to everyone and name this role Scrum Manager?
Stuart Turner
I know an organization, Scrum Manager is the manager for community of scrum masters. He is in position to improve the scrum practice within the organization. Scrum community is a team of Scrum Masters (of various personality!) in the company. In this organization and if I remember correctly, newbie Scrum Masters are executive level. Senior Scrum Masters enter management. Their organization ranking may go as high as senior managers e.g. like the Scrum Manager above.
It would benefit to complement the art of Scrum Mastering with management skills. Scrum Master can benefit from management knowledge and tools such as theory on different types of personality, coaching, the 4 stages of high performance team, cultural context, emotional intelligence and leadership.
Does Scrum Master use anything from domain of management? I have seen Scrum Master who do administrative and facilitative function only.
Fun Chiat
Meditated on this one for a while, then did choose wrong. I think this may be because "management position" brings to my mind a mental image of "traditional manager" or PM - that is someone who tells others what to do which is not what a ScrumMaster is. No idea if this is a problem for anyone else or if this could be re-phrased to be more clear?