Need some clarification regarding dev team size as stated in scrum guide

The Scrum Guide doesn't state that the SM or PM have to be full time jobs.  I have seen one person split his SM duties across two teams effectively on several occasions.  It is also possible for one person to play the Scrum Master and Developer role on  a team.

There are pros and cons of doing this, and the above situation will depend on the team and possibly their team maturity.  Perhaps the two teams the Scrum Master is on are high performing.  In cases where a team is newly formed and new to Scrum, perhaps they need a full time Scrum Master.  There is no black and white answer.

How SM and PO are involved in  execution of sprint backlog? To best of my knowledge SM and PO and full time jobs. How they can be part of dev  team ?

Why do you think that *any* Scrum role must be a full-time job? Isn’t it more a matter of framing a certain commitment, whether full or part time, and being able to honor that commitment?

Chris, splitting SM activities across teams is fine but my question is something different.

Ian, yes I think SM and PO are full time jobs because a developer cannot be a PO.

I mean to say a developer cannot be a PO and developer at same time.

Are you sure that a Product Owner cannot also be a member of the Development Team? Why would the Scrum Framework forbid such an arrangement, and what evidence is there for such a proscription in the Scrum Guide?

In a perfect world, I think SM and PO are full-time jobs and the SM is only assigned to a single Scrum Team. In much of the real world, SM's are over 2-3 teams and PO's the same. Also, it is not uncommon for the SM to be one of the developers on the Scrum Team. I agree that it typically works better for the SM to be a SM only and PO to be a PO only but often company leadership does not see that as necessary due to the huge investment in more employees that it could require to do that. 

As Ian said, there is nowhere in the Scrum Guide that forbids a PO or SM from being part of the Dev team. Some companies may function better with a developer as the SM or PO; a lot of it boils down to company culture, resources, and size. 

Ian, "what evidence is there for such a proscription in the Scrum Guide? ", I think this should be added in scrum guide either a SM or PO role can be played from anyone in  dev team or not. If scrum guide does not forbids us to whats the guarantee that it allows us to do so?

If scrum guide does not forbids us to whats the guarantee that it allows us to do so?

If the scrum guide would describe everything that is allowed like you ask, it would contain many many more pages.

Scrum is a framework within which you are free to manouver to improve.

Microsoft is also following scrum and MSDN states that " The product owner is a full-time job "

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh765980(v=vs.120).aspx

Also if something is not defined in SG so organizations are free to adopt any practice ?

I mean a developer as an SM and a developer as PO?

Microsoft is also following scrum and MSDN states that " The product owner is a full-time job "

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh765980(v=vs.120).aspx

A fulltime PO is not wrong by any means.

Also if something is not defined in SG so organizations are free to adopt any practice ?

Technically yes. Be careful that certain tactics could violate scrum 'rules' in subtle ways. If tactics hurt empiricism or scrum values, they should probably not be applied for example.

I mean a developer as an SM and a developer as PO?

Yes it's not prohibited, but that doesn't mean there aren't downsides to it. The upside is clear (costs). Is the fulltime role worth it? That's dependent of the team, organisation, product etc..

A mature scrum team typically gets less value out of a fulltime SM than a starting team.

A 5 person scrumteam will probably benefit relatively less from a fulltime PO + fulltime SM than a 11 person scrumteam.

Teams using Scrum are free to choose the practices which help them to best implement the framework in their situation.

Some organizations have found that a full time Product Owner works best. Scrum makes no prescription about this matter, and these experiences and recommendations do not change Scrum. Teams are quite free to self-organize differently.

Thanks Nobert and Dr. Ian, I have got answer of my question.

Scrum On...

Azhar.

I saw a question in scrum open , now there is no answer in scrum guide for this question. Now how can I answer this question? If these kinds of things are not cleared in SG so from where knowledge of these kind of questions should be gained?

Development Team membership should change:

As needed, while taking into account a short term reduction in productivity.

As needed, with no special allowance for changes in productivity.

The Scrum Guide says that synergy optimizes the Development Team’s overall efficiency and effectiveness. If a team self-organizes in such a way as to change its membership, what do you think the likely impact will be?

I saw a question in scrum open , now there is no answer in scrum guide for this question. Now how can I answer this question? If these kinds of things are not cleared in SG so from where knowledge of these kind of questions should be gained?

 

Development Team membership should change:

As needed, while taking into account a short term reduction in productivity.

As needed, with no special allowance for changes in productivity.

Scrum is an empirical process, meaning decisions are made from experience. So try something and if works great, if it doesn't work, change it. So long as you're in the framework boundaries, there is a lot of room for making it work for your team.

Considering the Scrum is a framework and not a process, it would be detrimental to put strict guidelines within the SG for every piece. Consider a small company where Scrum is the preferred method of development but if the SG enforces a full time SM and full time PO, that can mean a lot of waste. Say it's only 1 team of 4 developers and the team overall has a solid foundation of scrum and doesn't need a huge amount of coaching. I don't see that as being a full time job in this situation. You're going to have the SM sitting around a lot. With the SG being open about the role, it allows a company like I described to utilize scrum and make it work within their environment and resources they have available.

In other companies that are larger and produce a huge amount of software, like Microsoft as you mentioned, yeah that SM is definitely a full time position. Most likely, the SM is working with 2-3 teams, and probably has a fairly high turnover rate with developers. Thankfully the SG being flexible on this issue, allows both ends of the spectrum to utilize Scrum as the method of development. 

Curtis thanks for your kind explanation, agreed.

Ian, " If a team self-organizes in such a way as to change its membership, what do you think the likely impact will be? " , definitely productivity will be effected for a short period of time.