Practice Test question of PSM, This explanation made me confused. Is it right? any idea? is scrum.org differs with scrum guide?

Last post 09:11 pm July 10, 2019
by Eric Naiburg
9 replies
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02:40 pm July 9, 2019

57- There can be multiple Definitions of Done when multiple teams are working on the same product.

Yours Expected

✓        ✘              a. FALSE

✘        ✓              b. TRUE

According to Scrum.org, they can have different Definitions of Done, as long as they are compatible with each other and capable of creating integrated Increments. 
Note: it may seem that the Scrum Guide says there's only one Definition of Done for multiple teams, but this is not the case according to Scrum.org. Having this flexibility can help, because, for example, one team may want to have extra tests. There's no harm in that, and yet, it impacts their Definition of Done.

04:51 pm July 9, 2019

57- There can be multiple Definitions of Done when multiple teams are working on the same product.

Yours Expected

✓        ✘              a. FALSE

✘        ✓              b. TRUE

According to Scrum.org, they can have different Definitions of Done, as long as they are compatible with each other and capable of creating integrated Increments. 
Note: it may seem that the Scrum Guide says there's only one Definition of Done for multiple teams, but this is not the case according to Scrum.org. Having this flexibility can help, because, for example, one team may want to have extra tests. There's no harm in that, and yet, it impacts their Definition of Done.

@Tawfiq Mohammad Abdus Sattar, Can you help us by directing us to where Scrum.org says that? Where did you get this question from? It seems rather vague.

Although this may vary significantly per Scrum Team, members must have a shared understanding of what it means for work to be complete, to ensure transparency.

The above line means, Scrum Teams may have different Definitions of Done (DoD) and members of each Scrum Team should understand what "Done" means for their respective Scrum Team. This is for individual teams working on separate initiatives/backlog.

If there are multiple Scrum Teams working on the system or product release, the Development Teams on all the Scrum Teams must mutually define the definition of "Done".

If there are multiple Scrum Teams working on a Product, then "all the Scrum Teams must mutually define the definition of "Done"

05:08 pm July 9, 2019

There are three things to consider from the Scrum Guide:

If the definition of "Done" for an increment is part of the conventions, standards or guidelines of the development organization, all Scrum Teams must follow it as a minimum.

and

If "Done" for an increment is not a convention of the development organization, the Development Team of the Scrum Team must define a definition of "Done" appropriate for the product. If there are multiple Scrum Teams working on the system or product release, the Development Teams on all the Scrum Teams must mutually define the definition of "Done".

and

As Scrum Teams mature, it is expected that their definitions of "Done" will expand to include more stringent criteria for higher quality.

The first quoted paragraph states the Development Organization sets the standards to be followed as a minimum.
The second quoted paragraph applies in case "If "Done" for an increment is not a convention of the development organization". It does not state there will be one DoD, it states a DoD is mutually agreed apon. That is to achieve the same effect as if it was set by the Development Organization, it will be minimum basis for the teams to adhere to.
The third quoted paragraph is the conitnuous improvement / Inspect and Adapt going on within the team.

So, given there is a minimum DoD, and teams are able to tighten this into a more strict version, you can argue also following the scrum guide, that there can be different DoDs between teams.

 

05:09 pm July 9, 2019

There are two relevant statements in the Scrum Guide:

If there are multiple Scrum Teams working on the system or product release, the Development Teams on all the Scrum Teams must mutually define the definition of "Done".

and

Any one product or system should have a definition of "Done" that is a standard for any work done on it.

What this means is that each team maintains their own Definition of Done. However, since the teams are collaborating on a single product, there is a minimum baseline Definition of Done that all teams must adhere to. This allows for teams, as they mature and learn, to improve their Definition of Done to beyond the minimum baseline. There should be opportunities, as the teams and organization matures, to also improve the baseline Definition of Done.

05:09 pm July 9, 2019

From the Scrum Guide section on Definition of Done(DoD)

If "Done" for an increment is not a convention of the development organization, the Development Team of the Scrum Team must define a definition of "Done" appropriate for the product. If there are multiple Scrum Teams working on the system or product release, the Development Teams on all the Scrum Teams must mutually define the definition of "Done".

My interpretation is that every team can have a different DoD but if they are working on the same product, all of the DoDs will define the Product's DoD and include the organizational DoD. I coach that if there is a organizational DoD, every team shares those elements in their DoD.  If a team wants to define their own DoD, it can not overrule anything in the organizational DoD but it can apply more firm measures. For example, if the organizational DoD says "All code must be peer reviewed before it is included in a release to production" it would be reasonable for a team to state "All code must be reviewed by 2 or more individuals other than the author(s)".  The organizational DoD is covered but with a more stringent requirement. 

So the statement "There can be multiple Definitions of Done when multiple teams are working on the same product." is absolutely true "as long as they are compatible with each other and capable of creating integrated Increments". 

Does that help at all?

12:04 pm July 10, 2019

Thanks to all for giving your opinion, this was actually a question in PSM practice test. But the explanation they gave here, i was surprised. For me multiple team working on same product should have a mutual definition of done.

But look at their explanation, it seems wrong and they mentioned the name of scrum.org to gain more confidence of people. i got this question from mplaza.

"

57- There can be multiple Definitions of Done when multiple teams are working on the same product.

Yours Expected

✓        ✘              a. FALSE

✘        ✓              b. TRUE

According to Scrum.org, they can have different Definitions of Done, as long as they are compatible with each other and capable of creating integrated Increments. 
Note: it may seem that the Scrum Guide says there's only one Definition of Done for multiple teams, but this is not the case according to Scrum.org. Having this flexibility can help, because, for example, one team may want to have extra tests. There's no harm in that, and yet, it impacts their Definition of Done. "

02:11 pm July 10, 2019

This question is not in any Scrum.org test, practice or other.

04:50 pm July 10, 2019

It is from mplaza @Eric Nailburg

@tawfiq, my previous answer should point out clearly, what the scrum guide says and what scrum.org says, and they do not contradict, they say the same thing, please read my aswer again

07:31 pm July 10, 2019

Can someone link an article that maybe explains with examples or real life situations? I have read all your comments, and I find it hard to understand, main reason is I have no real world work experience with DoD. Or maybe could some give a very simplified example? Maybe its just me and how I learn and take things in, but I always need to read a definition and then follow it up with an example.

Thanks!

09:11 pm July 10, 2019

There are some good articles on DoD in the Scrum Master Learning Path: https://www.scrum.org/pathway/scrum-master/understanding-and-applying-scrum/definition-of-done