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Another incoherence in Scrum Guide

Last post 11:24 am February 6, 2015 by Ba Luu Van
8 replies
03:04 am January 29, 2015

Hello,

"The remaining events may end whenever the purpose of the event is achieved..."
"Daily scrum is a 15 minute time-boxed event" - which suggests it cannot be shorter and

this answer from open assessment is considered CORRECT. The answer with shorter duration is INCORRECT.

In contrary the rest of the events (apart of sprint) are defined as MAXIMUM amount of time.
Cheers,
Romauld


05:08 am January 29, 2015

The idea of a timebox is that an event can take no longer than the allocated time. It can take shorter however.
If the purpose of the daily scrum is achieved, you would not want to create waste by forcing the people to stay and stare at the wall. Instead, they should have the freedom to get PBIs done and create value.
This applies to all events except the sprint itself. The reason for this exception is to reduce complexity which rises with a varying sprint length. If the sprint goal (purpose of the sprint) is achieved, the team can continue creating value without the need to end the sprint, because the sprint itself is not a meeting.
Hope this helps.


06:19 am January 29, 2015

A timebox is a container. It has a fixed maximum capacity which cannot be reduced, but there is no expectation that it should always be filled to the brim. So:

- A Daily Scrum can take no longer than 15 minutes, but a team can decide to adjourn before the 15 minute limit expires.
- Sprint Planning, Reviews, and Retrospectives are timeboxed to specific lengths, but teams may adjourn before timebox expiration if they wish. The time of expiration is not affected.
- The length of a Sprint timebox may not be exceeded or shortened, but a team can still finish the work on the Sprint Backlog early.


08:47 am January 29, 2015

Thank you for your answers. I agree with them of course.

Why sprint planning, sprint review, sprint retrospective are defined as a maximum duration
and daily scrum not?
Sprint Planning is time-boxed to a maximum of eight hours for a one-month Sprint. For shorter Sprints, the event is usually shorter

The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute time-boxed event

Just curious


12:08 am February 1, 2015

Hi Romek,

I think you has a bit misunderstanding here.
Sprint duration is time-boxed itself. Maximize of it should be a month.
"Sprint Planning is time-boxed to a maximum of eight hours for a one-month Sprint. For shorter Sprints, the event is usually shorter "--> That mean with a month sprint you should have Sprint Planning with time-boxed is eight hours. But if you running with 2 week sprints (shorter sprints), Sprint Planning should be shorter, maybe 4 hours is OK.
In both 2 cases above you still need 15 minutes time boxed for Daily scrum because the works in meeting is the same: each member answer 3 question. right?

In other words, just simple that the work of Sprint Planning, Sprint Review, Sprint Retrospective depend on Sprint duration, but the work of Daily scrum does not.
I hope you got it :)


07:53 am February 4, 2015

Hi
Thank you for the answer. I understand the difference, but I do not see consequence in SG for events:

If the timebox is understood as interval from 0 to X-time, we have

-Sprint planning is time boxed to a maximum of eight hours... - Should it not be written:Sprint planning is 8 hours time box.).
Adding maximum suggest that we do not talk about interval but the length.

In short - all events should be defined in the same way pointing out that for some length depends on legth of sprint itself.

I am not sure if I can put it more clear.

Cheers,
Romek


09:27 am February 4, 2015

"Time boxed" means: the event can not exceed the time allotted. Sprint Planning, Daily Scrum, Sprint Review & Sprint Retrospective: all are time boxed.


07:27 am February 5, 2015

Thanks!
If so:
Time boxed" means: the event can not exceed the time allotted."

The sentence "Sprint planning is time boxed to a maximum of 8 hours'

looks like repeating: "Sprint planning is time boxed (cannot exceed the time alloted) to a maximum of 8 hours."

So if we define time box is maximum time there is no need to repeat it another time.
cheers
Romek


11:24 am February 6, 2015

Hi Romek,

I got your point. But the reason why we should repeat maximum here because it's the recommend value for maximum sprint lenght- 1 month. Your team can decide to change it shorter (for example 7 hours instead of 8 hours) if you want. Or as SG mentioned "For shorter Sprints, the event is usually shorter."

You said "Should it not be written:Sprint planning is 8 hours time box.). " --> Yes, I think you should not rewrite like this because it is not flexible. Why you need to set up to 8 hours time boxed for sprint planning of a 2 weeks sprint? Normally 4 hours is OK in this case.


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